Doomsday: Trace Demon vs Alex Sean- WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT TITLE!

Matches that occurred on our 2013 Doomsday Pay Per View!
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Re: Doomsday: Trace Demon vs Alex Sean- WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT TI

Postby Rob » Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:00 am

Legendary wrote:
Dan wrote:
Dysfunctional wrote:I'm going to read these later. Just a thought, though:

This is the first time I see FOUR FUCKIN' POSTS made for a match, Sean. LOL
See: Alex vs. Jedi.
Why? No one else did.
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Re: Doomsday: Trace Demon vs Alex Sean- WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT TI

Postby Danger Liam » Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:48 am

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Re: Doomsday: Trace Demon vs Alex Sean- WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT TI

Postby Dysfunctional » Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:27 pm

When does voting conclude?
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Re: Doomsday: Trace Demon vs Alex Sean- WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT TI

Postby DJS » Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:11 am

Dysfunctional wrote:When does voting conclude?
Midnight tonight.

GET ON IT people.
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Re: Doomsday: Trace Demon vs Alex Sean- WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT TI

Postby Dan » Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:05 pm

I'm actually getting on it right now. Vote to come in probably a few hours, seeing as I gotta read the constitution up there.
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Re: Doomsday: Trace Demon vs Alex Sean- WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT TI

Postby EBR » Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:14 pm

Trace: Nice stuff man. Let me preface by giving dap for being consistent with your opponent's over the top entrances and actually putting in the effort to write one. A better man than many in that regard I'm sure. The Cult of Tomorrow fighting off Rated X was a logical touch which I thought was effective and I really liked the ending. Whether just a coincidence or not, using a submission finish on Sean was a nice call back to your joint promo last week when Sean claimed he would make Trace tap. There's very few discernible flaws in your game and you're solid at every aspect, which shows in your essential running of this place for like a year. My one criticism would be that at times you didn't go all in with it emotionally or expand on the concepts that could have really aided the story you were telling and its peaks. Just as an example, the guy (apparently) hired by Perez to screw Sean out of the match. It's an interesting dynamic that I felt should have received more time devoted to it. How do Sanction and Rose really feel about it, do two wrongs make a right, was Trace aware of it, did Trace make a deal with Perez, and so on. Just putting more emphasis on the high points of the match and going into the depths of it from all the characters involved would have made it more effective IMO as opposed to it seeming like everyone just accepted it.


Alex: lol that entrance and specifically the Calvin appearance. I appreciated the various pop culture references and I feel I can say pretty definitively that you're the best here when it comes to commentary. The story of the match was well-told and flowed naturally, a particular highlight being how Trace's arm gets injured by circumstance and how he's at a disadvantage by not only the injury but his inability to use it block Sean's strikes as he had done earlier. And on that same token I thought it was creative how Sean's signature moves were modified to target Trace's arm. Every character was well represented and full of personality, not just Sean and Trace but specifically both sets of commentators, Bullseye, and Tickles. That said in the interest of fairness Trace took some criticism for the length of some of his matches so I'm sure people could argue the same for you. As I said, everything did flow from one sequence to the next so I'm not sure I could even say what parts could have been taken out without it effecting the story, but it's certainly something to be conscious of in the future.


Two very strong matches that are reflective of a World Title match. For me what it ultimately came down too was I thought Alex's had more of the emotional impact and it drew me in more as a reader. IE: When Trace gets screwed by Bullseye, Kraig, and finally the fireball the travesty and injustice was captured perfectly, and most notably when Trace kicks out of the Bolt of Blazing Gold and the entire paragraph that follows about Sean being in shock, his confidence wavering, and ultimately being in denial. IMO the best and most engaging part of the match.


Vote: Alex Sean
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Re: Doomsday: Trace Demon vs Alex Sean- WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT TI

Postby Legendary » Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:32 pm

Okay, having read both matches that gives me reason to judge them. I'll start with pro/cons for both as a whole before moving into person-specific and then finally my decision. I put a lot of work into reading your matches and writing up this report so you would both be kind to indulge me your attention.

Both Pro:
-Very well written. Stylistically it was contrasting with Trace being more literally descriptive whereas Alex did a lot more with allegorical comparison which I like and prefer myself.
-The pacing at the start was very well done. Note I said at the start.
-Both had that main event, big match feel. There was no Superman-ing which is a huge plus for both.

Both Con:
-The additional commentary team is so fucking obnoxious. I realize that's the joke but at the same time it's just so redundant at this point. Trace had it right with the quip at the beginning of "if your ears start bleeding it's your funeral."
-Issues with outside interference on both ends that I'll get into in the individual analysis.
-The handling of size discrepancy. Trace is only 5 lbs. heavier but he's 5 inches taller which is a fairly wide gap. And with Sean's legit style and training (which I'll get into more later), he would be more apt to deal with it in other ways but certain things just didn't sit well or didn't seem right in visualization.
-The heel-heel dynamic is never really emphasized. I get that Trace is the lesser of two evils but his mindset and methodology are still firmly rooted in that heel mindset so it's a screwy dynamic to begin with but rather than address it or build some sort of turn it's just kind of ignored on both ends.

Trace Pro:
-You did a great job emphasizing Alex's more legit approach and finding ways to neutralize it. The portions where Alex is getting bested technically were well suited to the character's psychology and approach and fit well with Trace's general ring presence. So it was a good fit given that Alex has kind of been painting himself as the underdog so his striking was more deliberate and panicked.
-You had a very good slow build. There was a lot of psychological emphasis which is great storytelling.
-It was shorter.
-I liked the twist ending. I don't know if it was a one time thing or if we're going to have another three-way faction war (this place has more friggen factions than Dragon-Gate)
-Great handling of the storyline. There's a lot of room to build off of how you ended the match.

Trace Con:
-That ending was really kind of rushed it seemed. It would have worked if it had that fever pitch thing to build on but it was just like all of a sudden Cult of Tomorrow.
-Didn't space out signature moves. That's probably the reason the above seemed so abrupt.
-Lack of Bullseye doing generic heel manager shit. He was there, you acknowledged him, but he didn't do much until the end.
-Trying to edge out over Alex with a swerve as the finish.

Alex Pro:
-Solid, fundamental, dare I say "rudimentary" ring psychology. Bonus points for working Mexican, but minus for you not knowing what that means.
-Good use of Trace's contributions to the storyline and the handling his character traits and doing a lot to put him over.
-Solid crescendo of action. It had the appropriate storytelling elements given the match build.

Alex Con:
-Relying too heavily on outside interference. I get that's the point of Bullseye but way too much deus ex machina to justify how Alex survives.
-I appreciate jujitsu terminology because I know what you're talking about. It might seem alienating to some though so maybe you should mind that a little (coming from personal experience).
-Weak finish. You killed your death move but won with a foreign object.

So, given the complete analysis I'm going to vote for Alex Sean just because his match was a little more well put together and has a good jump off for progression of the characters and story as a whole. Good job. I would have called it a draw personally but seeing as someone has to win I'm going to go with Alex this time because of the less tangible elements of CD.
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Re: Doomsday: Trace Demon vs Alex Sean- WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT TI

Postby Dan » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:47 pm

Trace: Very good. I appreciated the brevity of the match, it made it easier to read through and appreciate the action and the tension between the two. You did a good job building up the lead-up to this match and for the first half, it was good. The Cult of Tomorrow was a surprise for sure, I certainly wasn't expecting them to come back like that, but I kinda think that evening the odds that quickly was more of a detriment to the match than it was a help. I understand that Trace has become the Face-by-default and that he's still a gigantic dick, but I think that giving Rated X a second to go at Trace before the Cult jumped the barricade would've been much better. My biggest gripe, however, was the finish to the match. I thought it was rather anti-climactic compared to the match you wrote and personally, the arm lifts were probably the worst way to finish. I can see the whole argument of "Trace had to render him unconscious to win" but I counter with a "then knock him out with a finisher" cause a pinfall would've been way better.

Alex Sean: First off, lemme start off by saying I hate you very much for writing the wrestling bible.

Okay, now onto the actual match. It's not often I can say this, but this entrance is probably best of the year. You crazy mother fucker. Bringing Calvin in as the Canadian Crypozoologist Correspondent was fucking hilarious and I enjoyed that. Then the actual match started and Trace was made to look like an absolute god. Where Trace's match looked like a wrestling match, yours looked like an absolute knockdown dragout fight. All the bobing and weaving, Trace fucking with Alex's head, and interspersing the history of the characters in the dialogue. I was kind of confused by the King Kraig interference, mainly cause I know the history between THOSE two characters, but then that took me to the finish which, just like Trace's, I absolutely thought was the worst way to finish. I didn't understand why the dire laid out Trace and I definitely do NOT like the three arm drops as a finish for what should, and very well could, be the feud of the year.

Vote: Alex Sean.
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Re: Doomsday: Trace Demon vs Alex Sean- WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT TI

Postby DGX » Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:21 am

Trace: First of all, I’m man enough to admit when I’m wrong. Having been back for a few weeks and having cracked out a couple of matches that were unintentionally long and were basically me following an outline I apologize for when I came down on you earlier this year for long matches. I mean I’m still against them, and they still suck to read (screw you Alex) but yeah, ultimately it’s going to take how long it takes to get my message across. I get that now and while still not a fan, realize it can happen to anyone.

Stylistically I had no issues at all with your match. It was well formatted, it flowed pretty good and overall had some nice action. The spot where you countered the Ray Lewis I question but I imagine that’s because we probably have different imagery in our minds for what the flipping neckbreaker component looks like. Your finish had a nice call back to the interview where Sean said it would be a submission win and the fuckery with Perez and the bald dude are kind of interesting.

All that said the primary element that killed your match for me in terms of enjoyment is the disregarding and lack of the Face-Heel dynamic the angle we’ve all worked on has been building. I get that you’ve always tried to get over in commentary that Trace is the lesser of two evils and that he’s still a dickhead etc. The problem I have with this is like, in 2001 when Austin went heel commentary wise they did the same sort of deal. The color commentators be they Heyman or King tried to get over, in contrast to JR's righteous indignation that Austin always said he was a certain way so why are you crying about it? But his in ring style changed to fit his alignment: No longer did he come out and just "open a can of whoop ass" on whomever he was in the ring with. He sold, he got bested, and resorted to cheap ass fuckery to win and it didn't matter his opponent. He did that wrestling the Hardyz. Too me you can play the heel or face however you like but the most important thing to me in a match is that stylistically, in the ring, you keep to your alignment. You didn’t really do that here. It’s almost like you tried to do a double turn which really is a situation that should only happen when the audience seems to be quasi going that way and the angle entirely up to this point has been establishing that Sean is a very beatable and sleazy piece of crap. I don’t hold your use of the Cult of Tomorrow against you, I think it was a clever way to reach back into Demon’s past/bag of tricks and level the playing field. But Perez’s involvement is a little suspect to me because while I acknowledge that we’ve established Rated X is very opposed to/against Perez’s authority I feel like with all the stuff Jack is doing tonight with the Whispers War stuff and kidnappings and the very existence of a company he’s been left to helm being in jeopardy that he wouldn’t really have time to put together/deal with Rated X or the world title tonight nor do I think it fits character wise for the Trace Demon we’ve been building to have sought him out for help if that’s how you were going to do it.

That was my only major gripe. Other than that little stuff kind of detracted to my enjoyment but nothing I’m going to penalize you for in a vote. But just for your own edification I felt that while it was neat and kind of funny to have you call back to old skool XWA with the portal joke and that Alex was once called the Phenom your continual use of it kind of both killed the joke and just sort of moved into the realm of like “okay, he’s not really called that anymore.” If you wanted to use a present nick I think his main deal right now is Monster. As well you didn’t really capture the Rated X Theatre dynamic, I appreciate your using quotes and the SAP deal (dap to E for suggesting doing it that way) but what really sort of killed it for me is you didn’t really fully get/present the dynamic we’ve been establishing for Werner more where he’s kind of like the “straight man” to Steel’s total biased rhetoric but like still cognizant of the fact that he’s on the Rated X payroll.


Alex: You bastard. You totally swore to me earlier today you’d never do this again and let me just tell you, off top, that if you don’t stick to that ish I’m not reading the next one.

The obvious thing you have going against you off top is the size of the match. Between numerous comments and your own awareness I’ll not go into it more than that. That being said as I trucked painfully at times through this there were just enough references, jokes, and general shenanigans be it via RXT or well placed in the description to soften the blow of reading this monster. The entrance was spectacular, as an actual Canadian myself who’s actually been to the Okanagan Lake I appreciated the joke that much more. Also Cal being the Canadian crypto zoologist was hilarious. Any time we can fit in a Cal appearance for a laugh it’s a win. Like Trace your story had nice action, although I feel yours had a greater attention to detail. For example Trace worked on your arm in his match and I didn’t really see it lead anywhere whereas your working on his arm compromised his ability to defend himself. As well modifying your moves to target that piece was extremely creative and crafty. I don’t think many think that way and it’s kind of nice to see a plan of attack based on a weakness take shape and install something to be exploited. As well, not as prevalent but it was a nice touch when you had Sean get misted but not have water to clean out his eyes because the fight was so pitched prior to that he downed it all. You left yourself a little alleyway there and then came back to it in a small way that enhanced the realism, at least to me. BE trying to wash his eyes out with beer was funny too.

Ultimately what speaks to me the most about this match is the same thing that took me out of Trace’s. The Face-Heel dynamic was extremely strong and throughout this whole match I barely had any spots where I felt Sean the character should win he was just outclassed that much. In a way I almost think you should have given Sean a little bit more credit than that but I understand the dynamic you’re trying to create for him as a heel as this past his prime, not very good, disillusioned shell of his former self whose confidence despite all his bravado is at an all time low. (Aha, you broke his heart E!) But where Trace tried to be crafty and heely in his match you followed the work we set forth last week and have been building too for months since our Legends return that Trace is an absolute animal and more than belongs in the top tier despite our assertions that he doesn’t. While some people may have a problem with the fire gimmick ending the match I don’t think it’s that farfetched. You had him kick out of your kill move, which by the way was a very big and shocking moment and the emotional fallout from Sean was just the most inspiring display from a delusional heel I’ve probably ever read. While the emotion and the detail of what Sean felt was very specific and immersing one has to step out from the emotion of the moment and logical remember that is IS a kill move Trace got hit with so if he kicked out, odds are there wasn’t a ton left in the tank logically. I kind of envision the finish Trace hits subsequent to that to sort of be his last gasp.

For your own version of interference, knowing the history of King Kraig, Sean and EBR as intimately as I do (given I’ve read the RPs and segs/the angle as a whole to the point I could probably write a doctoral thesis on it) I can’t lie, I’m extremely interested to see where that goes and what the dynamic between those three characters will be. Likewise as a character selfishly I really want to be a part of that whole process. I’m really interested to see where that goes.


The Verdict: Voting is a subjective process and ultimately what my deciding factor boils down to is two things, one I feel that Alex respected the Face-Heel dynamic in his match which made the arduous task of reading something for nearly two hours bearable and two both in essence suffer from the same kind of deal with the finish. A stronger finish could have tilted it one way or the other for both of these but as it is I’m left with which interference story I want to see unfold more Hector and the bald dude or Kraig and Sean. I admit to a bit of bias here due to my aforementioned familiarity with the Kriag story my vote is for Alex Sean. There was absolutely nothing wrong with your match in general Trace, it literally just came down to the alignment dynamic I couldn’t quite slide passed.
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Re: Doomsday: Trace Demon vs Alex Sean- WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT TI

Postby Canadian » Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:17 am

There isn't really anything else that can be said about these two matches. It is clear that they are both excellently written and I very much so enjoyed reading both of these pieces. My vote is going to lack the insight that DGX's has so I hope that you will all forgive me.

My vote is primarily being decided by the emotional response created from reading both of these, and I have to say the emotional response that I felt when Bullseye saves Trace in Alex's match was George R. R. Martin-esque. Seeing Trace completely dominate Alex Sean and then fall so emphatically is what I believed sealed the match for me.

I had become so invested in the match, that while I was reading it I wanted Trace to win...even though I knew he wouldn't.

I feel like I've been doing a lot of talking about Alex's match which is not what I intend to do. Trace I loved the technical aspect of your match, this is by far the easiest match I have been able to visualize since I got here. I don't know about your Cult of Tomorrow but I thought it was a nice twist to combat the numbers game that Rated X would bring. This was a real strong submission.

My vote is for Alex Sean.

Alex, I understand that this match was nigh 60 pages but I think it had to be. You spend a long time developing the characters, and a giant margin of time establishing Trace as an unstoppable force that requires every trick in the book to utilize. That withstanding, a match of this length only really works because of the pedigree between the two of these men. If you had written this long about someone like Axel Aomori...it wouldn't make sense. Be careful with how much you write on every single match. Good work though, and congradulations.


The King is Dead... Long Live the King.

On an aside note, this PPV is called Doomsday and with Dermal defeating Novak, Alex defeating Trace...and Whispers War doing a brutal number of JJJ *Winning doesn't mean he walks out of the arena.* I am thrilled that the bad guys have taken it. There could not be a better title for this event at all.

The Superman has died, Doomsday indeed.
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